American Christian Businessman: God has given that particular city that each particular Christian lives in to pray for revival. That's our duty. We cannot do once and a while prayer and then expect revival or change to spring forth. Most of us who live in a particular city end up conforming with the state of things. But that's not what God wants. He is expecting more from us because we are stewards of the city. Let us hear from Carol Ward, missionary in Sudan on the importance of passionate, desperate, persevering prayer.
Carole Ward: I am a third generation missionary. I have seen what prayer did in China for thirty years for my grandparents. Then I saw what prayer did in the Philippines with my parents 62 years of translating in the middle of Muslim terrorists ISIS. They lived by the power of prayer. I had the awesome privilege, but also responsibility, when God trusts us with that kind of up bringing, He trust us with the responsibility to carry on the baton, that is passed down in a generational calling and lineage. We have that as a nation in America, a generational calling and lineage, from when our forefathers landed on the shores of New England in the 1600s. They made covenants to the Lord for the nation. We have a responsibility even from back then. I realized in my family heritage that responsibility came with it, but all the victories, and all they God used them (my ancestors) was based on prayer.
That was engrained in me even as a child, no one necessarily taught me to pray. They modelled prayer. They lived on prayer. They lived on their knees, had night-time prayer. They had prayer and fasting in the middle of the jungle. I grew up in that environment. As a teenage, I can remember as young as twelve, that I would take my Bible and a notebook and just head off into the bush to take time with Jesus, for hours. I would sit down and say, "Talk to me Jesus." He would talk. We would take walks and I would write and journal. It was a two way conversation of friendship and intimacy. I didn't know anything else except the depths of that love. It had cost Him His life, and I wanted it to cost me my life. Whether it was in life or in death, take all of me. I prayed that at twelve years old. I also prayed that He would send me where no one wants to go. I know you, but millions don't and they have a right to.
I would read Foxes Book of Martyrs as bedtime stories at night. I really believed that what gave them the fortitude and stamina to persevere in the long hood of their lives was because they were people of prayer. I really believe that. Prayer gives you the intimacy with the heart of Jesus unlike anything else. You are coming into the Holy of Holies where the great High Priest who every lives to make intersession for us is. I would say, "I want to stand right here with you Jesus until you help me. I want to feel what you feel. I want to see what you see. I want to carry what you carry. I want to be one with that. 1 Corinthians 6:7 "But he that is joined tot he Lord is one spirit." That is an inseparable union. "Come-union," communion, like in Revelation 3:20, "I will knock and have communion with you," that is prayer. that is the bottom line of prayer. That is where everything else grows from: communion and intimacy with God. Intersession grows out of that. then later warfare, and later giving birth. There are levels of abandonment in prayer. Communion is "Come have union." That what it means, "Come have union." That what we do in our prayer closet.
Christian Businessman: God does everything by strategies. In Psalm 2 it says, "Ask of me and I will the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession." Carol, you highlight the word ASK and you say ASK is a prayer strategy. Can you give us a more deeper insight into what God has revealed to you on that?
Carole Ward: If you look at the three letters of ASK it is actually "ask, seek, knock." That is interesting because it's all of Matthew 7:7. The Lord has said again and again in the Scriptures about persevering in prayer. Some people say, "I'll only ask one time, because if I ask more than that would be lack of faith, or doubt." What I see is that the pattern in the word is perseverance. Luke 18 is a good example where the woman persisted and persisted pounding until the unjust judge opened the door and gave her her request. In verse 18 it says, "When I come will I find such faith?" In other words, her persistence in annoying the judge is called faith. In Isaiah 62:6-7 God says, "Don't give me rest. You cry out watchmen on the wall night and day, night and day, until. Isaiah 32:9-14, "Beat on your chest and cry out for the dryness and desolation of the land." How long? "Until the spirit be poured upon us from on high." Verse 15. In Lamentations 2:19 it says, "Arise, cry out in the night: in the beginning of the watches pour out thine heart like water before the face of the Lord: lift up thy hands toward Him for the life of your young children, that faint for hunger in the top of the street." Doesn't that apply to where we are in America? And of course, James 5:16, "The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much." Fervent means full of intense heat, passion, persistent. "So ask of Me and I shall give thee the nations and the heathen for your inheritance and the utter most parts of the earth for thy possession." Psalm 2:8.
American Businessman: That's great because God does everything by strategies. When a person is in a city and he is praying for revival, have you seen a timeline on how long it takes for the revival to break out? It's not one size fits all?
Carole Ward: No, it's not one size fits all. It's like saying, "Can we date the second coming of the Lord?" Nobody can. But you know what I do believe is that the longest the strong dark demonic forces have been embedded or controlled an area or region, the harder and longer it is going to take to up-root them and to flush them out. You can go pull up a tomato plant or a weed pretty easily. But you try to up-root a mango tree, you are going to take an ax and you're going to sweat, because it has rooted. That's why John the Baptist said in Matthew 3:10, "Lay the axe to the root of the tree." Wickedness has gone deep, evil has gone deep under ground into all sections of society. It's going to take time for that to be reversed and up-rooted. God can do it in a night. We know that, but I also know how long we have given the devil place.
American Businessman: It will depend of the depth of the wickedness that has gone on, which will effect when revival breaks out?
Carole Ward: Yes, how deep is that stronghold. God said to Daniel in Daniel 10:12-13, "I heard you from the moment you prayed. I am glad you didn't stop and I have come because of your words, your prayers. But a strong demonic force withstood Gabriel the messenger angel, then Michael, the warrior angel came to help. It took both of those leading angels from heaven to bind that strong demonic power to allow them to get through to Daniel with the end time message. We just don't know how long it will take to bring revival or change to a city or area. I believe it is very well determined by our level of passion. Passion is different from desperation. Passion is having a deep strong emotion about something. We can have passion when we sing worship songs, or at prayer meetings. We can feel passionate about reading our Bibles, something we love doing, or a person. But desperation is different. Desperation is a driving force that will not take know for an answer. It say, "I will die for this." It's what Rachel did in Genesis 30:1 when she threw herself on Jacob and cried, "Give me children, or else I die." That's how revival came to Scotland with John Knox.
American Businessman: From what I understand, passion alone is not enough. It's a mixture of passion and desperation.
Carole Ward: Passion leads to desperation if you keep feeding it. When we realize that this is about life and death, and it is, about our youth. I mean that is just one thing. It's always about life and death, but most of the time we water it down, we pat it down. Or we get distracted or diverted, and all these other things, the cares of the world choke.
American Businessman: We live in the city of Memphis. we have passion, but we are not in the place of desperation yet. But I know from my own experience, that when I move into desperation that's when prayers get answered. Usually desperation happens as a result of something that has happened in the city, some turmoil. I have passion, but something has to happen to lead me to a desperate condition.
Carole Ward: At 9/11 we got desperate. We got desperate for a very short season. We have been desperate before a few elections for one or two nights and then the election happened. A few more people got desperate when Covid hit and we saw the whole world shutting down and we wondered if this is when Jesus is returning. We had a space of grace, but we lost loved ones and there was a desperation that hit pockets. But it has to be sustained desperation. For example, we had a little girl that died in the village. One of staff said, "We are going to pray for the Lord to bring her back to life because the parents aren't saved yet." So he called on several of the missionary team, but let me tell you this. He said, "We are not stopping until she comes back to life." That's how much faith he had. I wasn't there in that village at the time they were relaying that story, but he said, "If you don't have enough faith to stay in this hut until this little girl comes back to life, get out now. Just go home. We don't want you praying. If you can't pray with us to the end with as much desperation and earnestness as we have, we don't want doubt in the room."
Look what God did to Jairus. Mark 5:22-43. When he got home and the girl is already dead. Jesus said, "I have a different definition, she's only sleeping." But the first thing Jesus did was He put all the doubt, all the unbelief, all the wailers, and mourners, out of the room. He said, "I am going to pray and I am going to bring her back to life, but I don't want any mixture here." Look what He did to Israel before that got to the Promised Land. He's going to let the ten spies and almost all the older generation die out, because they didn't have enough faith for revival. Two men did. So that is how God works. To weed out who is really desperate.
Christian Businessman: To recap some of those nuggets. The first things is that we have to ask. Then we need passion, but passion alone is not going to work. We need desperation, meaning it's a do or die situation. There's no backing out. The next question I have then, since you mentioned a few pockets of prayer is not enough. How big of an army from your experience do we need, how much intercession and unity of prayer is required before you see results, before you see revival breaking out?
Carole Ward: I don't think there is anything that measures size or number, because Samuel said it is no different for the Lord to save by many or by few. If you look at the Hebrides' revival, it was two old ladies and they prayed consistently. The Moravian revival was started by a young youth. But I do believe that it is two or more. When we look at the Old Testament we see men who stood in the gap and saved the nation, that was one man. Maybe Daniel, maybe Ester, maybe Noah, maybe Abraham. If he would have continued to intercede for Sodom and Gomorrah, who knows if God would have delayed His judgment for five. It's no different by many or by few.
But in the New Testament Church, we see the picture of the body of Christ. We see the power of unity and agreement. Jesus didn't train one disciple, He trained twelve. He sent them out two by two. We do know in 2 Chronicles 7:14, that God says, "If My people," meaning plural, "will humble themselves and pray, and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways; then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." That is a plural context in the Old Testament. But in the New Testament, my favorite chapters in describing this is Jesus asking His disciples to pray with Him. "Could you not tarry with Me for even one hour?" Matthew 26:38-41. Later, we see that, revival in the Book of Acts, from Acts 2, the pouring out of the Holy Spirit and onward, it was always cooperate. Every time they prayed together and the place was shaken and God added to their numbers, it was corporate.
Isn't it interesting that in Acts 12, you see the imprisonment of two of the main apostles, James and Peter. In the beginning of that chapter, James is beheaded by Herod. Now, the Church hears the news and they go "Uh-Oh." Peter's in prison and he's getting it tomorrow. Which probably was the case. So they decided, as a church, which probably was a small group, because it says they were in a house and Peter knocked on the door. It was Rhoda, the servant, who came to the door when Peter actually appeared. But they were in a home, because they met from home to home. They had been praying all night. That's desperation. It was an all night prayer meeting. We have an emergency in town, and now the church is going to pray. Maybe there were five people, maybe there were fifty. We don't know. But the fact is, they were determined. They were desperate. They were of one accord. And that's very critical. God did divine intervention between James and Peter, because the Church hit the floor.
Christian Businessman: So you are saying that it's not the matter of a lot of people, but that whatever gathering there is, it has to be of one-accord. I see your point.
Carole Ward: All through the Bible, and especially in Acts, we see again and again, if you look up the word "like-minded." They were like-minded and of one-accord and the Holy Spirit fell. They were like-minded and of one-accord and the place was shaken. They were like-minded and of one-accord, and on and on. The power of that agreement reminds me of Genesis 32:24 where Jacob wrestles with the angel all night. Jacob said, "I am not going to let you go until you bless me." (verse 26) Jacob was alone. He contended for blessings and he got it. Later in Hebrews it says, "He contended with God and man, and prevailed." (Genesis 32:28) Jacob contended for blessing and he got it. Now, Psalm 133 says, that when the brethren dwell together in unity, God commands His blessing. I always say, unity can make the difference between contended blessings and commanded blessings.
Christian Businessman: That's marvellous. I think many churches don't grow if there is not like-minded people in the church. Everybody is competing with each other. And there's no growth. Contended blessings verses commanded blessings. Wow! Where there is unity God commands His blessing. We should seek for blessings that God commands through having unity. As you pointed out, Carole, the highlight of the early Church in the Book of Acts was that they were united. The Holy Spirit fell and the Lord kept adding to the Church. That's because of that unity. We even see that in business. I'm a businessman. The corporations that are successful are because there are like-minded people who run after a common goal and vision and companies grow and grow. We need the same thing in our Christian churches and in our movements for God, where everyone gets on board with the same vision. We need to have the vision of Jesus and not get into petty politics and the herding of egos and the whole nine yards. But that has been how Satan has been sowing discord among the brethren. Think about it. Unity would bring power. What I hear is the command for blessings is unity. It's one thing for us to strive for blessings. The other is for God to do it through our unity.
Carole Ward: You know we can learn a lot from looking at our history of wars. I mean, natural wars in our land. How they were fought. I think there was a battle of Bunker Hill. They lost that stronghold or beachhead 18 times and then finally regained. So can we regain lost ground? Yes, we can. What happens in the natural, can happen in the Spirit. Another quote they I make and I use it in prayer is from General MacArthur. He said, "All failure in warfare and in life, and I relate this to prayer, can be summed up in two words, "Too late." Too late in realizing the impending danger at hand. Too late in realizing it that we could have done something to overcome it or them. And too late in uniting all possible forces against the enemy or danger. So we have power in unity and in Africa we call it "united in common vision." It doesn't mean we have to agree on everything doctrinally. It doesn't mean we have to agree on everything socially, or educationally or politically. But if we have a common vision that can never separate us and will bind us together for the deliverance and revival of our nation, then that's enough.
Christian Businessman: the common vision in both the Old and New Testament and Jesus came to do this was to set captives free. We want to bring people to the liberation of Christ, and show them about the finished work of Christ. Bring them to their true righteous identity in Christ. This is the common denominator. Our goal is to set captives free, not fight among ourselves for position or authority. If He can call us around that vision it will be okay.
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